Justine: Hi, I'm Justine.
Sarah Lavonne: I'm Sarah Lavonne.
Justine: We are so glad you're here.
Sarah: We believe that your life has the potential to make a deep, meaningful impact on the world around you. You, as a nurse, have the ability to add value to every single person and patient you touch.
Justine: We want to inspire you with resources, education, and stories to support you to live your absolute best life, both in and outside of work.
Sarah: Don't expect perfection over here. We're just here to have some conversations about anything birth, work, and life, trying to add some happy to your hour as we all grow together.
Justine: By nurses, for nurses, this is Happy Hour with Bundle Birth Nurses.
Sarah: I have a special guest here today because we have an announcement-ish. Many of you have maybe heard, but Justine is no longer an official part of the Bundle Birth team, but she is here today because, I think, for many of you who have followed along with us for the last years and years from the jump, Justine has been my counterpart. She's been my other half. We've been through a lot together over the last seven and a half years is what it ended up being. Less than that. Five and a half years, probably.
Justine: Six and a half, I think, because I was pregnant. I think it was going to be six, because I wasn't pregnant yet when we met.
Sarah: Yes, then six and a half years, and all of the changes of starting out with Bundle Birth from the jump. We want to reminisce a little bit, and I am so excited that Justine is here to also just be able to connect with all of you because she has been such an integral part of this community and in the growth and the leveling up that many of you have had. If you've followed this podcast for the last six seasons now, welcome back for season seven.
She has been there for all of it, other than the one time you went on maternity leave. We also want to talk about just where the podcast is going and where Bundle Birth Nurses is going, and celebrate the time that we've had together, and also celebrate change because change is inevitable in all of our lives. There's good change. There's bad change. To me, it's entirely how you see it. That's where we're going today.
Justine: It's not bad. It's just different, right?
Sarah: Yes, exactly. It's not better. It's not worse. It's just different. If you have followed along, that is one of our Bundle Birthisms that I forgot about. Thank you for that. I grew up with that one in Ecuador. Often, there was things growing up that, especially for my parents who grew up in North America, they were like, "Oh." It's easy to get frustrated when something is different and immediately label it as bad. One of the catch phrases that we used as a family was, "It's not better. It's not worse. It's just different. It's not bad. It's not good. It's just different."
We're in a different season. I feel very happy and hopeful for where we're going. I will say, just kicking this off, that I do miss you a lot. We think about you a lot. There are lots of moments when we're in team meetings, or we're talking about a lot. We've been talking a lot about mentorship because mentorship is opening soon. We're coming up on our January cohort so soon. There's loss with you not being an official part of the team. Obviously, we still talk, and I still have seen you, and I've really loved that, but we don't have those same touch points, as we all know, that your coworkers are your people. While in the last couple of years, there was less and less of that, it still feels like we miss you.
Justine: I miss you guys, too. I know when this airs, it'll be later, but just a few days ago, you posted that you were at an advanced physiologic birth, and I was like, "Oh, that looks fun," because it looked hands-on, and that was fun. I was like, "Oh, yes, I didn't even know that was happening." It feels weird not knowing, but it's not better or worse. We were texting yesterday in true Sarah and I fashion of like, "Oh, yes, we have a podcast tomorrow. What are we going to talk about?" "I don't know." I'm trying to think of the girl's name. Was it Natalie? Who was the girl that only knows us from the podcast? Isn't on social media.
Sarah: [crosstalk].
Justine: Yes.
Sarah: I think it's Natalie.
Justine: I want to say hi to her, specifically.
Sarah: If it's not Natalie, it's weird. Sorry. [crosstalk] You are Natalie in our brains.
Justine: Whoever heard my voice walking at the resort and was like, "That's Justine," from the balcony. She doesn't follow social media, so she only follows here. For anyone that's only a podcast listener, it's been a lovely time. I'll probably be back popping in here and there, but you have plans, too, with the podcast. We think there are going to be some changes, and I think it's advancing for sure. Interesting. I didn't have a computer for six weeks. My laptop's broken. The screen just broke.
My Mac that I'm recording on now, just is archaic, it feels like. It just needs to be cleaned out. I haven't had to open a computer in so long. Each time I do it, it takes forever, like I'm on a dial-up again. That feels different, but it feels good. I just feel so disconnected, but in a good way. I don't want anyone to take this bad, or personally. Please don't take anything I say personally, because it's not your story. It's my story of the idea of educating someone right now gives me the itch. I'm like, "Oh, I don't care." Isn't that weird?
It's so not me. Maybe that's just as I was so tired or hit the brunt of it, or I could have someone sitting next to me talking to someone else about something that I know a lot about at work, and I have zero desire to chime in. I'm like, "Yes, [crosstalk] You'll figure it out. There's people better and smarter than I am that can help you out there," is what I'm thinking. I don't mean that in a way of like, I'm not giving myself enough value or appreciating myself enough. I'm just like, "I don't want to. I just want to be with my patient once a week, at night."
In my hospital right now, Sarah, multiple nights, I don't have a patient from 10:00 PM to 6:00 AM. Multiple nights.
Sarah: What? [crosstalk] I'm like, "Don't tell this to the rest of the world because everyone's rolling their eyes."
Justine: No, it's crazy. Coming from where I'm coming from, of being the supervisor at the crazy hole I was in, it's such a weird time, and I love it.
Sarah: Great.
Justine: I know.
Sarah: Do you feel like it's a burnout? Are you willing to talk about your transition out of, I'm going to say Bundle Birth, but everything? [laughs]
Justine: Is it a burnout? I don't know because I do feel like that may be a little bit overused. It's a leaning into a more soft and slow. I am trying to grow my own food, raise my own animals right now in my tiny little urban homestead. One thing that sets my soul on fire right now is that I can grow a tomato, save those seeds. The next year, grow another tomato, and no one gets paid for that. No taxes are paid on that tomato that I grew because I saved the seed. That is my tomato for my family that I get to feed them.
It feels so good to be like, "That's mine, and I did that." I get frustrated at the amount of work that we do for healthcare. We work, work, work, work, work to pay more and more taxes to get stuck in a system. This is where my own journey is. I don't know what happened, but it just feels really frustrating. I just want to work with my hands. My first thought was, "Not my hand in a cervix, my hand in the dirt." [laugh]
Sarah: With your goats.
Justine: Right. Maybe it's a burnout. I don't know. I think, too, I mentioned that I did so much work to protect my postpartum with Noah, my second son, that it was so nice and peaceful, and my calendar was empty. I was like, "This is what I want. I love this." I will say my lizard brain is what I call it, desperately wants to add more and more and more just for fun. I just feel like I need to. It's hard work to be like, "No, it's okay. I can sit. I don't have to keep going. I don't have to feel worthless if I'm not doing anything right now. I can sit. I can wait and be still."
It's really hard to be still. I'm just trying to lean into that. I don't know. I was thinking about that, too. I'm like, "Why do I not want to educate anymore?" I think maybe years of being behind the DMs and the messages from nurses, of we had a mission, and we have a mission, and Bundle Birth has a mission to change birth and to make it better and to help nurses. Then there would be people that actively riot against just basic human kindness and respect. That's tiring. It's like, "What do you mean?"
That was hard, and that is hard. If you're listening, that's the reality of trying to educate in a world like today and online, especially. Nurses are brutal, especially if they don't agree with you. I don't know why they don't agree in basic human consent and autonomy, but that's their thing they need to work on. There's just so much anger out there.
Sarah: You were, I will say, just in general, social media is a grind. Social media is the farthest thing from a peaceful life. [laughs] Even of the many tasks that are my responsibility, I will say that social is the hardest of all of them. It feels like it is a never-ending rat race for what? Sometimes people see it, sometimes they don't. You put together the most thoughtful-- Even these Medication Mondays we've been doing, I'm like, "The amount of resources that go into that."
First of all, it's not started by me, but then I take it on, and it is easily two and a half hours of my time for that, and then it doesn't even get seen, it doesn't even get used for what, and then you have to post the next day, if you follow, and mind you, we don't because of literally a boundary I've had to set of what is reasonable. Mind you, we've had lots of conversations across the years. I wasn't fully expecting this conversation to go there, but I do think it's interesting and important for people to understand that are not in it because I think social media is so glorified, like, "Oh, you're an influencer."
In fact, I did teach that private hospital class, and at the end, it's technically a clinical champion training. Everybody on there in this hospital system has gone through physiologic birth, and then the hospital paid for me to come do an advanced workshop, and it was all hands-on. It's so fun. Oh my gosh, I'm desperate to do it for the public, so stay tuned. At the end, I'm like, "You are the clinical champion. What does that even mean?" What it means is you're an influencer. You're not the manager, you're not barking down people's throats, but what does it mean to be an influencer?
I was like, "Am I an influencer?" It was funny because someone was like, "Yes." What they meant was social media. I'm like, "Yes, I suppose I am," but I also don't see myself that way because there are people who this their whole life, and it has to be their whole life, and, for us, to me, social media is our give back. I have paid for every single one of your hours to be in DMs and be making posts, and for what? It wears you down when you're just trying to help.
I know we've had that conversation a lot, where at one point, you said to me in all transparency of like, "I'm done with DMs," and I was like, "Well, then stop responding," because for years and years, you responded to every single DM.
Justine: Right. All the requests. Oh, man. Now, on the flip side of that, I have made some great relationships. You know who you are. The people that I know--
Sarah: We met through social. It's the best thing in the entire world.
Justine: The people that are worried, like, "Oh my God, did I bug her?" No, you didn't. It's the people that were mean. The people that were left unread. Maybe that was part of it, but I don't know. Was it burnout? I don't know.
Sarah: We don't have to define that, however.
Justine: I'm grateful that I'm able to just stop. There's people that are burned out that can't stop, and that sucks. Am I on a massive budget? Yes. Do I not eat out anymore? No.
Sarah: I think we all can relate to needing more peace in our life. I relate heavily to that, and I can't stop. There are lots of days, every day, that I probably want to stop or just be off, off. I haven't been off for eight years ever.
Justine: No, I know your brain can't stop.
Sarah: It isn't like a, "I don't want to," it's like a, "It actually can't," because now there's a team, and we are committed to this mission, and we've committed to be in it. That is what I've signed up for, but there's a piece of me that's very much happy for you and also like, "Wow, what would that be like?"
Justine: I know. Let me turn on my computer.
Sarah: "Whoa, we are living opposite existences, very."
Justine: I know, but I always had the dream, though. If we talk about our vision board of like, "Where do we want to be?" I was in the middle [chrosstalk]-
Sarah: Oh, yes.
Justine: -on a farm, writing a book.
Sarah: On the mountains. I remember there was that phase, too. [laughs]
Justine: If I end up off-grid somewhere in the mountain.
Sarah: Oh boy.
Justine: You know what? Speaking of mentorships, in a true ADHD-Justine fashion, I'm going to flip because I want to mention, and I'm so excited that Brie is going to Move, speaking of mentorship. It was a highlight that came up on my Instagram, like, "Mentor meetings from 2021," and it was Brie and Mikkel were there with us, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they've been with us for so long," and then I thought, "Oh my gosh, Brie's going to Move and mentees get to meet her in person. I'm just so excited for that. How is Move going?" That's coming up. That's in a second. That's blink of an eye.
Sarah: It is a blink of an eye.
Justine: That's crazy. It felt like so long away.
Sarah: I know. When we announced that it was going to be three years from the first one, we were like, "That's so long." It was nice to take a full year and not think anything about it. Of course, there's been little dabbles, but I will say that the business has shifted so much since when we put together the first one that we're just doing a lot more. The team is tripled, quadrupled from what it was. It was two of us, really, full-time.
I will say that this one has been significantly more taxing on the team to the point where we have decided we will not be doing it again. I know I said that last time, but it was like, "I have to see how it goes, but it's so fun," and I said it was right after everything ended. I compare it to, you know when you go to the grocery store hungry, you're like, "I need everything?"
Justine: Yes.
Sarah: Yes, I was in the grocery store hungry at the end of it, like, "We've got to do this again." Reality is that when we're looking at goals and business, just smart decisions for the sake of the big picture, Move is one of those luxury, fun things that really put us back. It's a loss for us financially, especially, but also time. I will say that that's from the very clear business mind of me just being in business, but the reality is that Move is everything that we are, and my favorite thing that we do.
It really has been my strategic team that's been looking and crunching all sorts of P&Ls and whatever of like, "We can't commit to this again. It just does not make logical business sense," and then the dreamer, Sarah, who just wants to be doing Moves full time all the time is like, "Well, but it's so fun," and it is so fun. It's moving, and we just recently announced the theme, which is Living Colorfully, the Creative Art of Nursing, all about centering the patient experience.
It really feels very relevant to what we're facing in nursing right now and the challenges, the struggles, the systemic stuff, the cultural stuff, the outcomes, the push-pull, the moral injury, the burnout, all of the things that I know that you also have struggled with that have contributed to your decision to be and doing and living the way that you are. I feel it's going to hit exactly where people need it to be, and there's going to be something for everyone, and the colorful side of things.
So much of what we do is so black and white, and it gets really rigid and boring where you lose the color, and so our entire dream for this last one is to just infuse and color your world. It's also a very fun theme from a creative side of things. It's just so fun. It's coming together. All of the decor, if you've seen the recap, we'll drop it down below. Please watch it, it's so fun. We go all out. This is really to see, safe, and soothe you.
We were just there for a scouting trip and met with Teresa. First, she's doing the Rebozo healing ceremony, but in the main session and expanding on it. We took a bunch of photos. We're going to give people a special Rebozo guide. You'll be able to purchase Rebozos. We took a bunch back, so they will be in the store. Even if you're not coming to Move, you can purchase a Rebozo directly from the artisans in Mexico. It's coming together. I'm really excited about it. I'm so excited that Brie's coming. We're doing a special event for anybody that's been in our mentorship program ever.
Justine: I saw.
Sarah: We have some really, really cool stuff. We're also bringing back Sound Birth, Myofascial Release. There'll be some breakouts, but we took the feedback from the last one, that it felt really full for them. We're giving two and a half hours between the end of the main session to the first breakout, so people have time for lunch and just a slower pace. It's coming. It's very weird that you're not a part of it, but I know that even from the jump that you weren't planning on coming anyway. That doesn't feel like a huge change.
We've just been powering through and having our A-Team meetings and our Culture Corps meetings. We have an amazing, amazing group, both staff and Culture Corps. Culture Corps, you won't know till the last night because they're being little covert officers. You know who you are. It's coming together. All of you are invited. There are still tickets available, and actually, we have-- I don't know what it'll be by the time this comes out, but we have had some singles move to doubles. The singles have been sold out for almost a year.
We have, I think, three opening up. We're going through the waitlist now, but once we're through the current waitlist, we're just turning it off and making them available online, and then you can add yourself to be notified if triples or singles become available, but there are doubles, and we'd love to meet you in person. If you had FOMO last time, you're going to have FOMO again. Again, it's my favorite thing that we do, so I really hope that we're at a place in the future where we could do something like that.
Again, I think we would probably move it to the States, maybe more local to Los Angeles. It's just we can do so much creatively in Mexico that we would never be able to do here, and it would turn into just another conference. There's a lot of nursing conferences out there that go to those-- I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I'm not trying to compete. I just want to do what we do best, and I know that a Bundle Birth event is very much a Bundle Birth event. It still would be very much who we are, but Move is so much more than your learning, and you get so much good learning, but it's so much more than that. I don't know how to replicate that in the States, to be honest, but flex and flow.
Justine: It's such a battle, I'm sure, with the bigger conferences. I want to get so many CEs in, but for what?
Sarah: Yes. We're going to do some pre-Move CEs. They're going to get the care framework class, which is how to advocate and talk to providers. That comes from the pushing class. There's a snippet in the pushing class, but we're going to do a care framework workshop, where it's only people-- If you're coming to Move, expect an invite in your inbox at some point. It's coming up in March. We can also meet ahead of time, and there'll be breakouts and little workshopies of how do we center the patient and advocate for them, and manage the dynamics of the team, and not piss anyone off is the goal.
Justine: I had that as an interview question recently, but it was something about getting along with your coworkers and providers and becoming a team, whatever. I thought about, one, I think it's so easy to interview now, just because I feel like all of the Bundle Birthims are just seeping out of me when I talk about whatever. It's just like, "Yes, whatever. I'm sure it'll be fine." I thought about what we always talk about in mentorship, how we literally were on camera, being like, "Oh my God, we've never thought about providers. We're such gits. We never think about their feelings."
That just reminded me of that, and I mentioned that, like, "Who do they have? Who do they have? Nobody." It's all, "Woe is me." We're so, "Woe is me right now in this moment. I have the biggest issues," when it's not true. We don't. Someone has it worse than you, I promise. It's all perspective. I think that I'm jealous of that class. It sounds awesome.
Sarah: There's a part of me that's like, "Well, just sneak in. Whatever." [laughs] Justine, you will always be a part of Bundle Birth, and that's where I want to be very clear to this community and for everyone to know that we send you off with so much love. I know that I did a whole post on this. There's a highlight on Instagram about it because you have been through every season from when it was at my dining room table, and we were like, "Nurses need support, and what could that look like?"
Justine: They need a doula.
Sarah: They need a doula. Yes, that's what we said. It was like, "What if they had a doula in life?" That turned into the whole thing. You were the reason why I was able to move that direction. I would not have done it alone. I would not have. To know that I not only had support in making those jumps, but also had a friend and somebody that was so aligned in my frustrations and also my love for OB and nurses and families and just making a difference. I'm just so grateful.
I know that the Bundle Birth Nurses community is also so grateful to you. I hear it all the time. I see it in DMs. I think I try to screenshot them and send them to you as they come in. Who you are, and it's more than what you've done. It's who you are is infused into the culture of Bundle Birth Nurses, and that will always be the case. If you're in mentorship, you will still get to learn from Justine. She won't be on mentorship calls anymore, but you're with us forever. I hope that we can all just cheer each other on in these new seasons of life and times change.
What's hard about small business is that everybody is in it to win it in the grind versus big corporate, you're like, "Peace out." One person leaving, everybody feels it. It is a lot more like family. It is a lot more like deeper relationship. Whereas most CEOs, you're like, "Who's that? Oh, yes." They walk by, and you're like, "But we're in an apartment in LA, y'all, and it's tiny."
Justine: Even CEOs, thinking about directors. People don't even know who their director is.
Sarah: They walk by, and they're like, [onomatopoeia] [laughter] as people decide to leave or go different ways. I know for you, you've transitioned your role and your title, and your responsibilities 600 times. As we've transitioned you out of various other things that you used to do, it's like, "If this is what you need, then we send you on your way with so much love." Again, we miss you, but any kind of change I see is an opportunity. We have been moving and grooving and onward and forward. Do you have anything you want to say to the community?
Justine: I just feel really grateful that I was able to change anyone's practice and make any difference. I know I helped do that. I know that it was little things that feel really good. It was Team Underwear that opened people's eyes, and they're like, "Oh my gosh, why do I?" or when I would have a conversation about they don't want to be monitored, they have to be. Then I would say, "Well, are you going to restrain them, or what kind of restraints are you going to use?" "Well, I'm not." "What are you going to do?"
Just challenging the status quo. That's what's so hard about OB. People are still realizing that some of them are sick, but most of the time, they're not sick. They're fully aware and alert, and oriented and can make decisions. Social media, in general, is making it harder for you, and they're coming in with maybe some things that aren't true or what you don't think it's true. Maybe it is true. Maybe they have researched more than you have.
We talk about it all the time. They actually do birth prep. They know more than you probably. There's a big chance of that. That's challenging, being aware of that, being humble enough to know, "Hey, yes, I don't know. Let me ask. That's a really good question." Then, studying more and doing more classes. My sister is an ER nurse now. She just started. She did her high-risk OB class yesterday. She knew when not to give Hemabate and Methergine, with asthma or with high blood pressure.
Her little students next to her, or her coworkers, were making fun of her for knowing that, and I was laughing. She was like, "They didn't even have OB in school. They didn't have a rotation to have OB." I'm like, "Oh my gosh." That's coming up too. We've talked about that. You have people that have never done OB, never been a part of it, becoming L&D nurses with only the med-surg, or ICU, or ER framework. That's hard.
Sarah: Yes, totally.
Justine: It's just a mind battle. What to say to all of you? I am so grateful. I do think I'll be popping in from here and there. I'm still here. Keep listening. Keep having an open heart and mind. I think about you, Sarah, with your hands open. My hands are open to this. We had a patient come in the other night, the one patient, and the whole thing. She was holding her baby. We opened the door, and she's holding her baby. I was like, "Oh my gosh." She comes in, and she was supposed to deliver at the birth center down the street, and she didn't.
You could hear all of what they wanted right away, and I'm assuming you wanted to go to the birth center, and you just deliver it in your car. She's not going to want an IV. She didn't, naturally. I already had a patient, and I knew that wasn't going to be mine. In my mind. I was like, "This should be my patient. I don't care what she does or doesn't do. Let's just do what you want to do." That's how everyone should feel. I don't know. I just hope that more people-- I don't know how to teach that. Laxed days are cool, but also stay safe.
Sarah: It's detached. The word, I think, is detached. No, this is like being a leveled-up human being. This goes way beyond OB. This is, we are so attached to other people's decisions, other people's choices, other people's personalities, other people's way they manage their money, the way they manage their time, how they handle their relationships. It's a judgey writing people's story culture.
Justine: Because their decision makes our decision either worse or better. I homeschool. If my friend chooses to send their kids to school, my decision to homeschool could make them upset because then maybe they feel like they're doing it wrong.
Sarah: Right. That's entirely ego work. Now we're going on a tangent, and it's totally fine, and I love it. Ego is not being cocky. Your ego, everybody has an ego, and it's the push-pull between you being-- This is totally my definition, but you being accepted, you being good enough, you being better than. That's the constant push-pull of the ego. The ego wants to get ahead. The ego wants to take. The ego wants to be the, fill in the blank, popular one, the smartest, to be the best.
Even the concept of best, to me, is flawed. Who decides what's best, homeschool or public school, or private school? The practice of detachment is part of a lot of when you get into the work of leveling up and the work of-- a lot of more spiritual work, doesn't matter religious, I'm not talking religious, I'm talking spiritual work, that a lot of what I would call a master or a higher-level person or a really wise person, like Mother Teresas of the world, are detached from other people's choices, and even theirs.
They're not attaching meaning to things that, first of all, are none of their business, and second of all, are also-- Your choice to homeschool, I can choose and create my own suffering to say, "Oh, you must be crunchy," or "You must hate the public school system for some reason," or "You must want to control your children," or "You want more time with your child." It's entirely based on how I see it. There's a lot on the practice of detachment. That's where meditation comes from, that you detach from your outside world, and you even detach from the judgment of yourself, let alone others.
To me, I see that as growth in you. The fact that you're able to detach from other people's decisions, and sure, it affects you and your care, but you're a professional, and you adapt to their care, and we're not taking on more than what is our own to take on.
Justine: I'm also detaching myself from poor nursing care of others in the sense of when I hear people talk at the station, and I don't know if that's good or bad, I'm just going to influence-- I used to go to church, and there's the whole phrase that I used to love, because I don't like to proselytize, of the preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words. That's what I'm doing. Preach good nursing, and if necessary, use words. [laughs] [crosstalk]
When I hear them talking or whatever, I'm just like, "I'm not going to think less of you as a person." I'm thinking, too, "I don't know why, but I'm sure there's a reason." There's the other one, "I'm sure there's a reason you feel that way. I'm sure there's a reason you're grabbing so hard onto that nurse, director, patient." We all just need to detach. [laughs]
Sarah: It is an active process, let alone you start getting into your internal attachments to components of who you think you are versus who you want to be, versus et cetera, et cetera. That's a whole other-- I got lots of journaling that I could read to all of us about a lot of that practice for me, even personally.
Justine: Is this something you're working through right now and learning about?
Sarah: I don't know if I've called it detachment, but yes, I think that a lot of times-- Not a lot of times, we are influenced by our outside world. There's things we can control, and there's things we can't control. What we can control is ourselves and how we choose to see, respond to life. I think with change or with challenges or with even thinking about, since yesterday, the whole, "You're an influencer," and I'm like, "What? I totally don't see myself as that," and yet I know I have massive amounts of influence.
How do you detach, like you're talking about at the nurse's station, and I now feel a responsibility based on the influence that has been built here, that I have a responsibility to that. I can't fully detach from my role, which then it's also about knowing your role, and you have intentionally pulled back and detached from a responsibility to feel like you even need to speak up. Maybe that's part of the freedom and feeling like it was too much pressure or whatever, and needing that peace or needing that detachment in your role.
Also, if you're a manager, you have signed up for holding people accountable. If you are a labor and delivery nurse, you have signed up to clock in and keep people safe and treat them in a way that is respectful, and that gives them the best chance at the best outcomes. That's what you signed up for. There is a responsibility for yourself, and this we talk a lot about. This has been very thematic in what I have been infusing into the stuff that's been going out by us, the new pushing class, advanced physiologic birth, Move stuff, of owning what is yours based on your life circumstance.
If you don't love your life circumstance, I could quit Bundle Birth. I could be done. I don't have to do this. In fact, it would be much easier not to, and yet, I don't feel energetically that that is where I need to be, and so here I am continuing to show up. In the same way, I think that's the lesson for all of us, that you can also quit. You could leave nursing. That breaks my heart a little. You haven't left nursing. You've set some pretty strict boundaries for your life, and it's not just with Bundle Birth. You changed hospitals, you've changed entire lifestyles.
Justine: A new woman.
Sarah: You're a new woman, and I love that for you, and that is the agency we all have over all of our lives. We are not trapped by our circumstance, and I think it's important to know energetically when something is done, like, "I'm leaving nursing," or "Maybe I need to detach a little more. What am I holding onto so tightly and creating so much meaning around that is causing me to have suffering? What do I need--" We're talking a lot about burnout right now, and news flash, I am joining mentorship, this upcoming cohort, as a mentor.
It's been years since I've been on every mentorship call, so I will be a part of the January cohort. I'm so excited about it. We are looking for specifically burnt-out nurses. We're using that word, even though it's overused, but because it's overused and people can relate to it. If you are struggling so much that you feel like leaving, but internally you're like, "But I don't want to," that's the types of people we're looking for for this upcoming cohort.
Justine: We're looking for the Carleys.
Sarah: We're looking for the Carleys, exactly, and really looking for 100 nurses to come through the next year together and navigate that together, knowing that we're not alone, and really utilizing mentorship as the catalyst for having those conversations. Some of that might be detachment, fully, and it may be doing something different and recognizing a boundary that needs to be set, or a, "I need to change hospitals," or "I need to work per diem one day a week like you and spend the rest of the time with my family," or "I need to get some goats and chickens."
I will say that for me, it's been being surrounded by support and by a community that believes the best in me and is cheering me on and understands what I'm up against has been really important for me in navigating my life, and also detaching from my external circumstances has also been really helpful. I think there's lessons for us all, and I think you're a perfect example of what it could look like for some.
For others, your life is not at all what I feel drawn to. I love it. I've been to the farm, and I've fed the goats, and held the little chicks, and seen the incubator of the eggs, and eaten the duck, but that's not for me, and that's okay. It's a detachment to other people's life choices. Do I wish you wouldn't have quit Bundle Birth? Yes, but I also don't because if that's what you needed, then that's what you needed. That's fine. Great.
Justine: I think there's something to all of that, detachment, influencing. It's such a fine line of-- I don't want anyone to picture me as someone who really doesn't care because that's not true.
Sarah: No, you care so much.
Justine: I'm just not jumping into every opportunity, which I feel like I was before. I'm not nagging anymore. Sarah and I shared this on mentorship. We were like the annoying nurses that knew too much and cared too much. There's a balance to that. Detachment, I love that. I'm very grateful for what I got to do in my time. I feel like one day I'll be back in some capacity. I imagine I would. I don't even know what that means. I'll just see people. If there's an LA event, I'm going to be in LA at the event.
Sarah: Oh, yes, you will. You better.
Justine: [laughs] If you listened to last season's season finale, update on my goats, I bred them all with a man. I had to bring a boy goat here. It was the nastiest, grossest thing. He was so sweet and so kind, but boy goats pee on themselves during the fall. It's called rut. They pee all over their beard to attract the women. It smells so bad.
Sarah: What?
Justine: Yes. You'll walk out into the backyard, and it smells normal. Then he gets excited because one of the girls stands up or whatever. Then he just pees, and it's so bad. I would definitely have a boy because it's easier to own the boy, the buck, if you have more land. I can't in my tiny little backyard right now. Anyways, he came, and he did the deed with all three of my girls. It was really hard to watch him with my small ones, their first time. I was like, [crosstalk]. He was very gentle.
What was so interesting was the first goat, she's already had babies before. He went right to town right when she came in. She has to be ready. She has to be in heat. Otherwise, he knows, and he doesn't. He knows that she's going to stand for him, and then he does it.
Sarah: I'm sorry.
Justine: She does. It was quick and fast. Right now, it's a whole thing.
Sarah: What? Stand for him?
Justine: Yes. If she stands for him, she's ready. If not, he's not going to do it. She's not going to allow that. The female goat will not be pressured into anything she doesn't want to do. [laughs]
Sarah: Oh, okay. I love that for her.
Justine: I know. Anyways, she immediately got to business. You want to see it happen three times, is what the breeders say.
Sarah: Three times with the same person?
Justine: Yes, three times with the same goat.
Sarah: Same goat.
Justine: Yes, same goat. It happened in a matter of 10 minutes. It was three times. Then, what I call my heart goat, my girl, Sage, she started flagging, and was flagging her tail and rubbing up against the fence at him. I was like, "Oh my gosh, she's ready." Same day, same night.
Sarah: He can keep going.
Justine: Yes, keep going.
Sarah: Oh.
Justine: He can service two girls at once, is what his owner said, or the same night. Anyway, I put her in, and it was so interesting. He knew. He was very calm and wasn't aggressive at all. Not that he was aggressive with the first one, but it's like he could tell she's been around the block. She knows how to have babies. She's had babies. This one's the first time. They ate together. They ate some hay together. It was super slow, but it was fascinating.
Sarah: Stop.
Justine: Anyways, they're all bred. It doesn't mean they're pregnant. In the first week of December, we'll do ultrasounds.
Sarah: Shut up.
Justine: My mentor will come over and do an ultrasound. I'll have that on social media. It'll be very fun.
Sarah: You have a goat mentor?
Justine: Yes. Her name's Terry. She's lovely. She's the one who let me borrow her buck. She's leased me this other goat that I'm milking. She lives nearby. It's very important if you're going to buy a goat to have a mentor because they're not hard, but it's such a new world.
Sarah: Oh, my gosh.
Justine: Anyway, I'll know if they're pregnant or not.
Sarah: I'm such a city girl.
Justine: If they are, then they'll have babies end of March.
Sarah: Oh, how fun.
Justine: I know. I'm so excited. It's a good pairing. I really do feel like it's a good pairing. It matters because you're trying to improve the breed. The idea behind breeding goats, if you're ethical about it, you want to improve the breed. You want to make them better. I think this will make them better.
Sarah: How do you know that?
Justine: You're looking at body confirmation, utter, what are they weak in? Oh, their back looks like this. You want to breed them with a buck that maybe will straighten out the back. It's a whole world. It's fascinating. I've just jumped from labor and delivery to goats. [laughs]
Sarah: Breeding goats.
Justine: Who knows? Maybe he'll come. Maybe you'll be like, "I think she's going to give birth tonight," and you'll be like--
Sarah: Oh my God, I'll be the doula.
Justine: [laughs]
Sarah: Yes, please. Can you imagine my commentary? The amount of questions I have about this farm. I'm like, "What do you mean?" You should see my whole face the whole time, I'm like, mouth open, eyes huge. I'm like, "What?"
Justine: It's awesome. No, I watch a lot of YouTube influencers in the goat world, and watching the births are so fun and stressful. There's a cervix. I took a class. I got to check their cervix like I told you last time. It's a whole thing.
Sarah: Do you have little long gloves?
Justine: Yes, they do. A lot of them, though, don't end up wearing gloves. They just--
Sarah: What?
Justine: Yes, they don't wear them. Can you still go live? Oh, yes, you can. I'll probably go live on my social media during the births. Why not?
Sarah: Oh, yes. I'll go live on Bundle Birth Nurses. I'm just kidding because I do sound weird. You're like, "What the heck is this?"
Justine: They tune in, and it's just a goat's vagina.
Sarah: Right. "Here it comes." We could do commentary. "It's emerging."
Justine: "Here's the meconium." I got meds from a vet. She gave me oxytocin. They give calcium to help make the contractions stronger. It's so interesting. I got induction meds in case they're only pregnant with one. They want you to induce them on the due date so that the goat doesn't get too big.
Sarah: What's the gestation?
Justine: 145 days.
Sarah: How many days is human?
Justine: I don't know. 300 or something because it's five months, and a human's technically 10.
Sarah: Five months. That's better for me. Wow, that is something.
Justine: It will be fun. I'll be back for that.
Sarah: Thanks for that insight. You better. Sounds good. Let's talk about what's coming up on Season 7 and the plan. The plan is that Season 7/Happy Hour with Bundle Birth Nurses for this season is going nowhere. We are in maternity land basically is what I've channeled as Justine went to maternity leave because we did do a season without you. We prerecorded a couple, but otherwise, I had a couple of solo episodes. I have a couple of solo episodes. In fact, there's one coming on, which is fascinating if you heard the finale of the last season, Positions.
I will do a solo episode about positions. There will be stuff related to Move. We're having Teresa on this season to talk about the Revolso. If you're missing that session, that was one of the biggest highlights from our first Move Learning retreat. It will be the biggest highlight from our second Move Learning retreat, although there will be many. We're bringing her on to just talk about birth in Mexico because she gets to travel all around. It's really Mexico and South America. She's a doula. She's a childbirth educator, a Lomas childbirth educator, and then obviously trains on Revolso and other things.
We had a fascinating lunch conversation when we were in Mexico. She just has some really interesting insights on Mexican birth culture. We'll talk about the Revolso. We're also selling them. We brought some back from Mexico, so we'll have those in our store. We have an episode coming out, I believe next week, on burnout. As you can tell, this has been at the forefront of our brains. For those of you that have ever been interested in mentorship, we are opening up mentorship December 15th through the 1st, which is our standard time. We have moved mentorship to two cohorts a year.
If you are looking to be a part of mentorship ever, which is, to me, the easiest and most structured and most comprehensive way to get involved with Bundle Birth Nurses, especially this January cohort, you'll get to see me once a month with the other two mentors, which is Carly and Jess. The three of us will for sure be on. Brie may pop on here and there. Then obviously there's your learning. We do have the app that comes with that. We're really gearing up for this mentorship cohort with some upgrades.
In fact, I am about to step out from here and re-film the Welcome to Mentorship video.
Justine: That's why you look so nice.
Sarah: I know, I glammed today for that reason. Otherwise, it would have been butt on the head for the podcast to see some of our other ones. That's really exciting. Then obviously we have our Move Learning retreat coming up. Krista will be on the podcast this season. We've reached out to some really fun, bigger-name guests. There's been some percolating. I will keep us on the edge of our seats for that. Happy Hour with Bundle Birth Nurses is back. We are considering a later transition.
For this season, we are here. It will be me with some other special guests, and then a couple of solo episodes. We are onward and forward. The same as always. Nothing really has changed around here other than we're just missing you and your presence. Do you want to do the final outro with me?
Justine: Thanks for spending your time with us during this episode of Happy Hour with Bundle Birth Nurses. If you like what you heard, it helps us both if you subscribe, rate, leave a raving review, and share this episode with a friend. If you want more from us, head to bundlebirthnurses.com or follow us on Instagram.
Sarah: Now it's your turn to go and live free. [chuckles] Detach from all the work and enjoy your goats and your babies and your little farmstead. Is that what you call it? Homestead? Farmstead? Farm.
Justine: I don't know. I keep Googling, "What am I?"
Sarah: Your organic, peaceful, pickled eggs life. We will always be cheering you on. We will be seeing you next time, just not like we did before. That's okay. We will see all of you next time. Go detach a little. We'll see you next time.
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